A. This answer was passed to Ribbentrop and the German Government, and I imagine by SHIRATORI to the Italian Government. To digress a moment – in the future, unless Italy looms in the picture as an important figure, I shall confine my narration to Germany. I believe that I was in error when I said the answer came around the end of February – I believe it was the end of March. In any case, Germany through Ribbentrop told me that there was no argument in so far as Russia was concerned, and also in so far as making the other nations secondary, but that they wished to have a meeting with the Japanese representatives and get down to brass tacks regarding measures to be taken and naming specific nations. To put it differently, they stated that the time for generalities had passed, and they wished to settle details. The Germans also stated that they wished when drawing up the treaty to make no mention of it being primarily against Russia, but to keep it absolutely general, to leave out any details such as non-military aid, etc., which would weaken the pact. They said that some other means could be found to decide upon details. Q. General, when you say Ribbentrop said some other means could be found to decide upon details, what did the two of you have in mind? A. To go into this a little further, this means that when the treaty is drawn up it would simply state that in case of an unprovoked attack by any other nation not a signatory to the pact mutual aid would be given by the signatories. On the surface, therefore, this would appear to the world to be a strong and binding treaty. Of course, certain details of the treat, or for that matter, the whole treaty would be published, but what Ribbentrop meant was that in regard to Japan’s desire to not give more than non-military aid, if the country concerned was not Russia, the Germans wished to hold a meeting and to mutually agree upon this without including it in the actual treaty. Essentially, it becomes impossible to write up a treaty containing such clauses as what will be done in case it would be Russia or in case it would be some other nation, etc. Q. Now, Ribbentrop’s views, his actual views, were to the effect that he wanted military as well as the other type of aid from Japan in case of an attack, is that correct? A. I will speak to you a little more fully about that now. To go over this once more so that there will be no errors, and so that the matter will be entirely understood by you: (1) in so far as the actual pact to be published goes, there was no argument. This was to be simply a mutual aid pact, with no strings attached. (2) Japan wished in this regard to settle the matter either by secret pact or other means in regard to the other nations besides Russia. That is to say, that the aid to be given would then stop short of military aid. (3) Germany objected to -2-